Large Hadron Collider will not destroy the world
March 30th, 2008
Having read another blog entry about lawsuits to stop the LHC (Large Hadron Collider) and the comments of the blogger I feal I must talk about how some people thing the LHC will destory the would (which it will not do).
Black Hole.
They say that the LHC could create a black hole that could consume the world.
First off due to Hawking Radiation a micro black whole would just evaporate and even if Hawking Radiation doesn’t exist the nature of things that small will cause it to evaporate. But even if one was created and it didn’t evaporate it still would not destroy the world. It would be too small, very small, smaller than an atom, smaller than a proton, very, very small. It wouldn’t start sucking things into it, its mass would equal the mass of the particles that made it at with the energy they had at the point of collision (energy is equal to mass times the velocity of light squared so something with more energy has more mass) and that mass would be tinny. it would have to collide with an atom to absorb it into itself but it could only absorb only a small portion of an atom or even a proton or neutron and that would be rare. It would take probably trillions of years before it gains enough mass that its gravity starts sucking things into it and the earth would long ago have been destroyed by the sun at the end of the suns life.
Strangelet
Strangelet are a form is strange matter, hypothetical sub-atomic particles they contain equal numbers of up, down, and strange quarks (a proton contain 2 up quarks and 1 down, neutron contain 1 up and 2 down).
The “danger” is that is when a strangelet hits the nucleus of an atom it converts it into strange matter which then could hit another nucleus creating a chain reaction. The problem is these are hypothetical particles and even if they exist the chances of the LHC creating a strangelet are so small as to be effectively imposable.
There are cosmic rays flying through the universe with much higher energy’s than will be used in the LHC and these particles have been colliding with objects in the universe for billions of years. The earth, moon sun and all other objects in the solar system have been hit with these higher energy cosmic rays for 6 billion years. If the LHC could destroy the world these cosmic rays would have destroyed the earth long ago.
The LHC will not destroy the world. It will come on line, it will smash particles into each other, they will uncover amazing new physics and the earth will survive.
Wikipidia – Safety of the Large Hadron Collider
The safety of the LHC
Physicists Rule Out the Production of Dangerous Black Holes at the LHC
Bad Astronomy Blog – No, the LHC won’t destroy the Earth
[...] Edit: Chick here for a review of the suposed danger of the LHC [...]
CERN’s web site states that we have not been destroyed by effects of cosmic rays and micro black holes will evaporate.
However, cosmic rays travel too fast to be captured by Earths gravity, and Hawking Radiation is disputed (http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0304042) and contradicts Einstein’s highly successful relativity theory.
Collider particles smash head on like a car collision and can be captured by Earth’s gravity, and relativity predicts micro black holes will not decay (Hawking called Einstein doubly wrong, yet it is Einstein who is repeatedly found to have been correct in his theories). There is currently no reasonable proof of LHC safety, LSAG (LHC Safety Assessment Group) has been trying for months to prove safety without success. I hold the minority opinion that it may not be possible because it may in fact not be safe.
If micro black holes are created, we may soon be trying to calculate the growth rate, and in my personal speculation, it might not be too implausible to believe that calculation might need to account for the same quantum effects that Hawking predicts but as an accelerator not as a decay factor.
NewScientist March 22-28 “Stakes get higher in antimatter puzzle”: “We can say with greater than 99.7 per cent probability that CP violation is there” says Sivestrini [of Italy’s National Institute of Nuclear Physics INFN] (link corrected from article: http://arxiv.org/abs/0803.0659)
Cosmic Rays from the legal complaint.
…any such novel particle created in nature by cosmic ray impacts would be left with a velocity at nearly the speed of light, relative to earth. At such speeds, …, is believed by most theorists to simply pass harmlessly through our planet with nary an impact, safely exiting on the other side. … Conversely, any such novel particle that might be created at the LHC would be at slow speed relative to earth, a goodly percentage would then be captured by earth’s gravity, and could possibly grow larger [accrete matter] with disastrous consequences of the earth turning into a large black hole.
Sincerely, JTankers LHCConcerns.com
Did you even read the part where I talked about black holes? Any black hole created by the LHC would be far too small to destroy the world, it would last less then a second but even by some miracle it does not evaporate its mass would the the combined mass of the the two particles that created it. It would be so small that it would go through the the spaces between atoms and between the electrons and nucleus’s of the atoms.
Hawking radiation is readily accepted by physicists.
The earth and all objects in the universe are being bombards by cosmic rays from all side, cosmic rays from super nova and gamma ray bursts. Gravity does not need to attracted them , they are hitting the earth from all side every day. These cosmic rays have more energy than the LHC will use.
The LHC will not destroy the world, it is safe, scientists are not stupid.
Professor Dr. Otto E. Roessler estimates 50 months Earth accretion time from a single micro black hole captured by Earth’s gravity (www.golem.de/0802/57477-4.html, translation at http://www.lhcconcerns.com/LHCConcerns/Forums/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=52)
I only skimmed it but I read enough.
Any black hole created in the LHC will have equal mass to the two particles that created it accept it will be so compressed that it becomes a black hole. That means it would be much smaller than an atom and it component parts, it would not be able to suck things into it cause it would not have near enough gravity, it will have to collide with another particle to be able to absorb it and the odd of that are very, very, very tiny so tinny that if by some miracle a micro black hole survives and lingers in the earth for 5 billion years, it will have grown very little cause its would be so small.
And Otto E. Roessler is a biochemist, not a physicist and while he may be a very good biochemist I would never ask him about physics or astronomy or any other scientific filed other than biochemistry just as I would never ask a physicist about biochemistry or any other scientific filed.
Two quick observations about some of the comments:
1. Any black holes generated by the LHC will not be standing still, even though they’re formed by head-on collisions. Even in the extremely unlikely worst-case scenario where Hawking radiation is wrong and micro black holes can eat the Earth quickly, I think it’s very likely that everything created will be traveling much faster than the comparatively pokey escape velocity for the earth.
2. The LHC scientists and their families live and work on earth too. They are certainly the last people who would do anything with the slightest conceivable risk of destroying the planet.
I think there are no reason to care about end of the world. The maximum what can happen its complite annihilation of France and Switzerland and global Ice Age after it!
For security reason I suggest to the civilians in the location of this machine to leave this place at time of experiment, and the people who do this experiments to warn those people before machine start to go on full power – for them to pray!
And this will never happen, because its stupid as a fact… Live such long time by creating such long history of human race and to reach the final step its destroying of all(except of correcting), for Nova World!??? I think God have a lot of places in his\she’s hands to create New Worlds, or you think we dont like them because a lot of p0rn in internet!? OK… For example, the God is hate the p0rno, but why he is create them?
K.O. Have Nice Day, France and Switzerland!
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Not bothered about risks myself but there are a few things about the process of risk assessment and info to us I’m a touch worried about.
1. I heard a scientist from LHC claiming collisions would have more energy than happens naturally on Earth, so which is it, the same or more?
2. How can you do a risk assessment on something when you don’t know what is going to happen?
3. Nobody involved with the project should should have final say if project is safe or not. 20 years building, cooperation between countries, billions of dollars, who is now going to say, “actually, now I think about it…..”?
The collision in the LHC will not be near as powerful as nature can do. Particles with higher energy’s hit the earth and other objects every day.
Will you people learn how science freaking’ works!? I am tired of people who no nothing about science criticising science, criticising theories criticising experiments. Learn how science freaking’ works!
These scientists live on earth, all scientists live on earth. Do you think that if there was a chance that the LHC would destroy the earth that is would have been built?
I think,
Noting will happen.
End of story
I hate to be the grammar troll of this thread, as I do not necessarily equate bad spelling with an uninformed opinion. However, when I read an article that talks about the “soler system” and “law sutes” I just can’t take it seriously. I suppose it’s the literary equivalent of a physicist with a Cajun accent, but the author should clean this up to avoid being dismissed as a middle school student.
[...] the been turned on to day, it will be a while before actual colisions take place. And when it does the world is safe. Tags: black hole, end of the world, hawking radiation, Large Hadron Collider, LHC, micro black [...]
I don’t mind, as long as your polite. And you where so no problem.
Thanks for pointing out the errors. Now I can fix them.
hey just a thought but isnt it the nature of antimatter to not have a mass as indicated in the name whereas have a gram of the stuff is enough to duplicate a nuclear weapon and the fact that you are stating that a black hole something that absorbs matter and seems to defy logic when it actuall bends light rays cannot get larger due to the amount absorbed even if it is half a proton-sized, I feel a little confused, but if it can bend light which to time is relative it could probably easily break chemical bonds around it and grow relatively fast even if it is in just a couple seconds before it evaporates (if it does…) i propose that it could do some massive damage.
Its hard to tell what your saying cause its onwe big sentence but I’ll try.
Antimatter is like “normal” matter except its elecromagnetic charges are the opposite. Electron negative charge, anti-electron (or positron): positive charge, proton: positive charge, anti-proton: negative charge. The mass is the same.
Any black hoke produced by the LHC would have the same (or less) mass as the protons that made it thus to be a black hole it has to be very, very, very tiny, so tiny that it could pass through the whole of the earth with out touching a single particle and it would have to touch another particle to absorb it would have to touch another particle to grow and given its size that would be very, very, very rare. The solar system would be long dead before it grows to significant mass. And that if Hawking radiations doesn’t exist.
Lone wolf, Thanks for writting this out man i was worried about black holes cause of the news and stuff talking about it, I can finally sleep =), If they recreating another bigbang.. Is it gonna be a small one?
PS. Dont these people like have a backup plan if anything does go wrong?
Theres no recreating the big band, there simulating condition during the very early universe.
It something goes wrong the most that could happen is one of the detectors gets damaged. What would they do if that happens? I don’t know.
Hehe,Wouldnt be surprised if you was in on the machine
You know so much.
No. I’m just interested in physics and most of the sciences.
Where did you learn all this stuff its very intresting =), And im sure as hell you dint learn this in school hehe
A variety of sources. on-line science magazine (the free parts, don’t have the money for subscriptions) Discovery channel use to be good but not so much anymore, National Geographic Channel and others.
As for information on the LHC it self; There are a few links in the post and there you can find on google.
Here are a few more.
http://www.uslhc.us/What_is_the_LHC/LHC_Safety
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/09/080904220342.htm
Kool, Its something i can really get into
Last time nothing happened. This machine will NEVER be perfected, and if it is, the worst that could happen is that black holes would be created, and take a HUGE amount of time to suck earth into it. It will probably have another sort of malfunction crap again and they will have to fix it. It’ll never work.
[...] Seriously though, where safe. [...]